The following is an excerpt from the June 11, 2004 deposition testimony of radio personality Howard Eskin. Testimony begins with Eskin answering a question about having sued a former employer, radio station WIP in Philadelphia. The line of questioning regards Eskin’s on-air commentary that attorneys are “scum.” Examining Eskin in the defamation case is Shanin Specter of Kline & Specter, PC (Defense attorneys present were William J. O’Brien and Lee Levine.)
6 Q. Did you have an attorney at that case with WIP?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. What was his name?
9 A. You know, I don't remember his last name.
10 His first name was Butch.
11 Q. Was he scum?
12 A. Excuse me?
13 MR. O'BRIEN: Was he what?
14 BY MR. SPECTER:
15 Q. Was he scum?
16 MR. LEVINE: I object to the form.
17 BY MR. SPECTER:
18 Q. Was he scum of the earth?
19 MR. LEVINE: I object to form of
20 the question.
21 THE WITNESS: He was a friend of a
22 friend.
23 BY MR. SPECTER:
24 Q. So you would not call him the scum of the
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1 earth?
2 A. He was a friend of a friend.
3 Q. Would you call him scum of the earth?
4 A. He was a friend of a friend.
5 Q. Would you call will him scum of the earth?
6 MR. LEVINE: Answer the question.
7 THE WITNESS: I treat each person
8 individually.
9 BY MR. SPECTER:
10 Q. Did you regard Butch, last name unknown, as
11 the scum of the earth?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Pardon me?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Who else have you be employed as attorneys?
16 A. Pat O'Connor.
17 Q. In what capacity?
18 A. It was an agent I had that decided not to
19 represent me anymore. He wanted funds from me,
20 so he represented me.
21 Q. Did that case go to suit?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Mr. O'Connor, is he scum of the earth?
24 A. Mr. O'Connor is a friend.
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1 Q. Is he scum of the earth?
2 A. No.
3 Q. What other attorneys have you employed?
4 A. I don't recall.
5 Q. Well, you got four lawyers here, correct?
6 A. Well, I mean, I don't know all their last
7 names, but these are the attorneys I've
8 employed -- I thought you meant other than today.
9 Q. Do you regard any of these attorneys as
10 scum of the earth?
11 A. No, I think they're terrific.
12 Q. Aside from the six that we've just
13 discussed, any other attorneys that you've
14 employed?
15 A. Not that I recall.
16 Q. How about Mr. Sprague, he is an attorney.
17 Do you know him? Do you know about him?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Is he scum of the earth?
20 A. No.
21 Q. What attorneys do you know who are scum of
22 the earth, in your opinion?
23 A. I don't recall.
24 Q. Any?
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1 A. I don't recall.
2 Q. Okay.
3 Well, you told your listeners that
4 most attorneys are scum of the earth, right?
5 A. I believe I said many.
6 Q. I think you said most.
7 A. Okay.
8 Q. Or I think, actually, you said attorneys
9 are the scum of the earth.
10 Well, we will get what you said
11 exactly.
12 You told your listeners on July
13 31st, 2002, if your attorneys want to follow this
14 in the transcript, it's at page ninety-six,
15 "Attorneys are the scum of our earth. Not all of
16 them, just most of them."
17 You don't recollect believing that
18 any single attorney is scum of the earth; is that
19 right, Mr. Eskin?
20 MR. LEVINE: I object to the form
21 of the question. You can answer.
22 BY MR. SPECTER:
23 Q. Is that right?
24 A. I believe there are some.
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1 Q. Okay. Who are they?
2 A. I don't recall.
3 Q. What is your basis for saying that some
4 attorneys are scum of the earth?
5 A. You have to judge each individual situation
6 by itself, and I try to do that when dealing with
7 certain situations.
8 Q. Is that your entire basis for saying that
9 some attorneys are scum of the earth, what you
10 just said?
11 A. It's based on situations, yes.
12 Q. Okay. What situation causes you to believe
13 that attorneys are scum of the earth?
14 A. When I think it hurts society.
15 Q. Okay.
16 Do you think that most attorneys
17 are scum of the earth?
18 A. If you've listened to my program many times
19 you will see that I have been consistent with
20 saying not all, at times I've said many, at times
21 I've said most. It's difficult to pick out one
22 comment from one specific time and categorize
23 that.
24 Q. All right.
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1 My current question is, do you
2 believe that most attorneys are scum of the
3 earth?
4 A. In the opinion based on different
5 situations I believe there are some, yes.
6 Q. That's not my question, Mr. Eskin.
7 The question is not some. My
8 question is, do you believe that most attorneys
9 are scum of the earth?
10 A. The answer to the question is, dealing with
11 specific issues, in many cases I have believed
12 that they have not done the best thing for our
13 society.
14 Q. Okay. That's not the question. The
15 question is not some attorneys --
16 A. I don't think you can generalize.
17 Q. Excuse me, sir, I'm speaking. Please don't
18 talk when I'm speaking.
19 A. Sure.
20 Q. The question is whether you believe that
21 most attorneys are scum of the earth, yes or no?
22 A. I believe there are many.
23 Q. Okay. That's not the question, sir.
24 A. You are using the word most, I am using the
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1 word many.
2 Q. Yeah, that's right. You used the word most
3 on July 31st, 2002. You said that most attorneys
4 are scum of the earth, and my question is, is
5 that a true statement in your view?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Okay. Did you know it to be untrue when
8 you said it?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Have you changed your mind since then?
11 A. No, because I've said different things at
12 different times.
13 Q. Well, this was untrue when you said it.
14 Did you know it to be untrue when you said it?
15 A. It's an opinion.
16 Q. Sir, whether it's an opinion that is in
17 your view false, or whether it's a fact in your
18 view false, you view it as being false.
19 My question for you now is, did you
20 think it was false when you said it?
21 MR. LEVINE: I object to the form
22 of the question.
23 THE WITNESS: I have many opinions on
24 my radio program. The program is in good
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1 part based on opinions. That is what a talk
2 show is.
3 In the case of opinions, I don't think
4 you can characterize them true or false. It
5 is an opinion. And I have extended an
6 opinion as I do many times on my radio show.
7 BY MR. SPECTER:
8 Q. Do you express opinions that you believe to
9 be untrue?
10 MR. LEVINE: Objection to the form
11 of the question. You can answer.
12 THE WITNESS: I express opinions.
13 BY MR. SPECTER:
14 Q. Mr. Eskin, do you express opinions that you
15 believe to be untrue?
16 A. I don't.
17 MR. LEVINE: Again, I object to the
18 form, just for the record.
19 THE WITNESS: I express opinions which
20 are opinions. There is no true or false to
21 an opinion. It is an opinion.
22 BY MR. SPECTER:
23 Q. Right. But my question is, do you express
24 opinions that you don't believe in?
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1 A. I express opinions that are my opinion, and
2 that is.
3 Q. So you believe in the things that you say,
4 whether they're statements of fact or it's an
5 opinion, correct?
6 A. I express opinions, and that's what I do on
7 that program.
8 Q. Please focus on my question.
9 A. I am focusing on your question.
10 Q. No, you're not.
11 Do you express opinions that you do
12 not believe to be true?
13 A. Obviously --
14 MR. LEVINE: I object to the form
15 of the question. You can answer.
16 THE WITNESS: Obviously, at the time
17 that it is said it is an opinion that I
18 believed to be true.
19 BY MR. SPECTER:
20 Q. So when you said that most attorneys are
21 scum on July 31st of 2002, you thought that was
22 true at the time; is that what you're saying
23 today?
24 A. When I express the opinion I believe it to
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1 be true.
2 Q. At the time?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. How many lawyers are there in the United
5 States?
6 A. I don't know.
7 Q. How about in Pennsylvania?
8 A. I don't know.
9 Q. How about in Philadelphia?
10 A. I don't know.
11 Q. How many lawyers do you know?
12 A. Many.
13 Q. Give me a number.
14 A. It would be hard -- it would take time to
15 come up with a number. I know many attorneys.
16 Q. We have time. How many do you know?
17 A. I can't give you a specific number.
18 Q. Give me a fair estimate?
19 A. Over a hundred.
20 Q. Okay. Less than how many?
21 A. I don't have any idea.
22 Q. Less than a thousand?
23 A. Over my life?
24 Q. Whatever you define as lawyers that you
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1 know, Mr. Eskin.
2 A. Lawyers that I've come in contact with?
3 Can you be more specific?
4 Q. You told me that you know more than a
5 hundred lawyers.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. I went to know what the upper parameter is
8 of that number?
9 A. I don't know.
10 Q. More than a thousand?
11 A. I don't know -- it's -- to ask for me to
12 give you a number would be --
13 Q. How many of the attorneys --
14 A. It wouldn't be accurate.
15 Q. How many of the attorneys that you know do
16 you consider to be scum of the earth?
17 A. I don't know.
18 Q. Any?
19 A. There is an opinion that there are some,
20 yes.
21 Q. How many?
22 A. I couldn't give you a number.
23 Q. More than one?
24 A. Yes.
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1 Q. Who?
2 A. I don't know.
3 Q. You don't know any attorneys that you
4 regard as being scum of the earth?
5 A. In my opinion?
6 Q. Mr. Eskin, you can qualify it however you
7 want, whether somebody else regards it as truly
8 an opinion is a different matter.
9 But tell us who you regard as scum
10 of the earth?
11 A. I don't recall.
12 Q. Okay.
13 You said at the same time that,
14 "they perpetrate the wrongs in society" referring
15 to attorneys.
16 Did you believe that when you said
17 it?
18 MR. LEVINE: Before you answer that
19 question, would it be possible for him to get
20 the page or relevant pages of the transcript
21 that you're looking at so he can see what
22 you're talking about?
23 MR. SPECTER: Sure.
24 MR. LEVINE: Thank you.
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1 THE WITNESS: Can I have the page
2 before this and after this?
3 MR. SPECTER: (Indicating).
4 THE WITNESS: Okay.
5 BY MR. SPECTER:
6 Q. Do you have the question in mind?
7 MR. LEVINE: Why don't you read it
8 back, because I don't.
9 BY MR. SPECTER:
10 Q. I will just restate it.
11 Is that a correct statement that
12 attorneys perpetrate the wrongs in society?
13 A. It was an opinion that I had.
14 Q. That is not my question, Mr. Eskin. Is it
15 correct --
16 A. At that time, my opinion was what I said on
17 the air.
18 Q. That attorneys perpetrate the wrongs in
19 society?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Is that still your belief?
22 A. It was at that time. That was my --
23 Q. That's not my question, Mr. Eskin. Is it
24 still your belief that attorneys perpetrate the
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1 wrongs in society?
2 A. I take each individual case by itself. To
3 make a generalization would not a correct
4 statement.
5 Q. So that was wrong of you to say, correct?
6 MR. LEVINE: Objection.
7 THE WITNESS: Well, I didn't
8 generalize. I was talking specifically about
9 an issue, and obviously about a statement
10 that Allen Iverson had read, which I had the
11 opinion and raised the question on the air
12 that was not a statement that he had
13 written.
14 BY MR. SPECTER:
15 Q. The word they on the thirteenth line of
16 page ninety-six refers to attorneys, correct?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Okay. The statement is attorneys
19 perpetrate the wrongs in society.
20 Is that a correct statement?
21 MR. LEVINE: I object to the form
22 of the question. You can answer.
23 THE WITNESS: You need to take --
24 BY MR. SPECTER:
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1 Q. Can you answer the question yes or no?
2 A. Did I make this statement?
3 Q. That's not my question.
4 My question is, the statement that
5 attorneys perpetrate the wrongs in society, is
6 that a correct statement?
7 A. Well, as I've said --
8 Q. Can you answer the question or no?
9 A. As I've said, in other parts --
10 Q. Can you answer the question yes or no?
11 A. I made that statement.
12 Q. Can you answer the question yes or no?
13 A. Yes. At the time, yes.
14 Q. The question is not if you made the
15 statement, Mr. Eskin, the question is whether it
16 is a correct statement. At the time, was it a
17 correct statement?
18 MR. LEVINE: I object to the form
19 of the question.
20 THE WITNESS: I still don't understand
21 the question.
22 BY MR. SPECTER:
23 Q. Okay. If you don't understand, just tell
24 me you don't understand.
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1 Is it a true statement that
2 attorneys perpetrate the wrongs in society?
3 MR. LEVINE: I object to the form
4 of the question.
5 BY MR. SPECTER:
6 Q. What is so funny?
7 A. I am just --
8 Q. What is so funny, Mr. Eskin?
9 A. There is no humor in what we're doing here.
10 Q. Why are you laughing?
11 A. I am not laughing.
12 Q. Why are you smiling?
13 MR. LEVINE: I object to the
14 characterization that he was laughing.
15 BY MR. SPECTER:
16 Q. Why are you smiling?
17 A. Because I'm reading the transcript.
18 Q. Is there something funny in that?
19 A. Well, the statement that Allen Iverson made
20 I thought had some humor to it. As I said on the
21 air that day, I thought that statement had some
22 humor to it.
23 Q. That's why you're smiling?
24 A. Yes.
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1 Q. Okay.
2 Now the statement in here that
3 attorneys perpetrate the wrongs in society, was
4 that a true statement when you made it?
5 MR. LEVINE: I object to the form
6 of the question.
7 THE WITNESS: You're categorizing this
8 as a generality.
9 BY MR. SPECTER:
10 Q. I'm not categorizing anything, Mr. Eskin.
11 I'm simply reading what you said, and I want to
12 know if it was true when you said it?
13 A. To say all attorneys would be incorrect.
14 Q. No, I'm not parsing the words, I'm simply
15 taking what it was that you said, not all
16 attorneys. The statement, they perpetrate the
17 wrongs in society, those six words.
18 Are those six words true or are
19 they false?
20 A. It depends on the situation.
21 Q. Can you answer the question yes or no?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Okay.
24 What is an opinion?
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1 A. An opinion is what we do almost every day
2 in life. It is what talk radio is built on.
3 Q. Mr. Eskin, we brush our teeth almost every
4 day in life.
5 A. Okay.
6 MR. LEVINE: Objection to form.
7 BY MR. SPECTER:
8 Q. The question is, what is an opinion?
9 A. We're not talking about brushing teeth.
10 Q. What is an opinion, Mr. Eskin?
11 A. An opinion is what we do in our lives. We
12 have an opinion about certain things that take
13 place in our daily lives.
14 Q. What is the definition of an opinion?
15 A. I don't have the definition in front of me.
16 Q. What is your definition of opinion?
17 A. Is a belief or a thought that people have
18 based on a subject, on a topic, on a specific.
19 Q. Do you have a dictionary?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. At work, or at home, or both?
22 A. Both.
23 Q. Which one do you have at work?
24 A. Webster's, I assume.
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1 Q. Do you know?
2 A. No, I don't know.
3 Q. How about at home?
4 A. Webster's.
5 Q. Do you ever consult it?
6 A. Occasionally, I do.
7 Q. Have you ever looked at the word opinion in
8 there?
9 A. I may have.
10 Q. When?
11 A. I'm not sure.
12 Q. Well, opinion in, at least my dictionary,
13 is defined as a belief based on grounds short of
14 proof.
15 Would you agree with that?
16 A. Yeah, I would agree with that.
17 Q. Do you have any members of your family who
18 are attorneys?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Who?
21 A. My sister-in-law.
22 Q. Is she scum of the earth?
23 A. No, she is not.